De-Stress For Success with Isabella Ferguson
This podcast is about finding calm. I talk to the experts and bring you evidence-based practical methods to help you destress and live purposefully. In my early 40’s, I bowed out of a 20 year legal career “to spend more time with the kids”. However it was more than that. Decades of running on high anxiety and drinking to cope had had its toll on my nervous system and I was burnt out. I didn’t know it at the time, but from there I started years of recovery and ultimately stepped into a new way of living. I went to rehab, retrained as a counsellor and coach, created a successful counselling practice, became a motivational & corporate wellness speaker, took up painting and now support others to destress for success.
https://isabellaferguson.com.au
De-Stress For Success with Isabella Ferguson
An Integrative Approach to Stress With Dr. Shamistra Barathan
This is an episode I wish I had been able to bring to you earlier! My guest, Dr Shamistra Barathan an integrative medicine doctor from Melbourne's Mint Clinic, discusses what stress actually is, how it is triggered and what it does to our mental and physical health.
Do you that our bodies can be feeling stressed long before it physically manifests and before we notice the symptoms and seek help? Did you know that stress actually starts with a thought and can impact our hormones, lead to weight gain, chronic fatigue and burnout? As we discover in this episode, many of us unknowingly live in a chronic stress cycle that silently affects our health long before we notice and even begin thinking of needing to make necessary lifestyle changes.
Dr Barathan approaches stress management through an integrative medicine lens which provides us with a deeper understanding of our body's response to stress, examining the underlying causes and empowering us with practical and effective alterations to our diet, lifestyle and habits that can provide long-lasting results.
Dr. Barathan shares her own personal methods of de-stressing as well as her top three practical tips for listeners on how to identify, manage, and combat stress, all of which you can begin incorporating into your daily schedule today!
DR BARATHAN, MINT CLINIC
If you are after an integrative approach to your health, consider exploring Mint Clinic's website at https://mintclinic.com.au. Online consultations for those of us living outside of Melbourne are also provided.
ISABELLA FERGUSON
Free resource : "AM I DRINKING TOO MUCH?" FREE 5-DAY VIDEO SERIES
My web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
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Today on the podcast, we are very lucky to have Dr Shamistra Barathane, Director and Head General Practitioner at Mint Clinic in Collingwood, Melbourne. Mint Clinic is a collective of integrative medicine doctors who combine the best of traditional and alternative medicine to promote harmony in all aspects of our health. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Isabella. It's so awesome to hear other people spreading the word about stress. Yeah, we need to talk about this more.
Speaker 1:I'm thrilled to have an expert like you on our podcast. Now I'm just going to kick off with the question I ask all guests how do you personally know when you are stressed and what is your go-to method of de-stressing?
Speaker 2:I love this question because, in actual fact, we sometimes actually don't know. We really don't know. When I went back to my own personal journey, literally 10, 12 years ago, I was in that chronic stress cycle but I was so cold, thriving in it I had no clue how it was affecting my body until all these symptoms started developing. I was going down the medical model of trying to treat the symptom and not going deeper. Then that's when I got into integrative medicine and go OMG, stress really affects the body. What does that even look like? Because I was in so many of my friends were in that same boat of at that time.
Speaker 2:I was living in the UK, living in London. I was just doing so many things like working long hours and going out in the evening and filling up my weekends and just doing one course of the other. Was I mimicking the people around me? Because that's exactly what all my colleagues were doing? They were working long hours. They were doing exactly the same thing. We would squeeze so much into our day, we would multitask.
Speaker 2:In those days I was seeing maybe 30, 40 patients and all these extra tasks to do, but we just got on with it and we never questioned it. We never looked at how is this affecting me, how is this affecting my mental and physical health? Because we looked at everyone else and everyone else just got on with it and we never spoke about it at all. However, everyone was suffering in their own way, whether it was wow burnout and fatigue, or emotional fatigue or carous fatigue. They would come up with different symptoms. Whether it's actually going to go onto it, but whether it was affecting our menstrual cycle or whether it's causing weight gain or sleep, the fact is that we never talked about it, and that is crazy. I see it now in my practice so many health professionals, from counselors, psychologists to nurses all suffering from that chronic stress. It's phenomenal. Often we actually don't know until we get onto podcasts and have a listen and go hold on a sec.
Speaker 1:How am I doing?
Speaker 2:What's actually going on in my mind and my body and actually even asking that question of why am I rushing, why am I doing so many things and why am I just putting up with it? And I see a lot of women, career women, who are doing so many things, from just raising the family, being there for their kids, trying to put dinner on the table plus trying to get on with their work, but then logging on after kids have gone to bed and doing longer hours and just literally trying to manage. And now today kids have so many activities. So how do you fit all of that in? Often they put themselves last yes, always last, and it's always the kids first or the family comes first. And I ask this question all the time, like when do you do things for yourself? And they go actually never.
Speaker 1:Or in the evening with a glass of wine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So yeah it is.
Speaker 2:We actually don't know. We're in that chronic stress response. Yeah, and that's why I was just inspired, you know, to even start my own podcast of Six Hats, of just spreading that awareness that stress does affect your body because we're not talking about it, even in the medical world.
Speaker 1:So you're not going to see your doctor.
Speaker 2:It is okay. Here's the symptom, here's the drug. And when does stress come up? And I laugh about it now, because when I think you know about my colleagues, they're stressed, they're actually under a lot of pressure and maybe they're not recognizing the impact on its body, because that's not what we're taught at all. We're not even having these discussions.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:When the medical profession is not really talking about it, and their stress and their suffering from weight gain and alcohol and mental health. And how can they talk about it to their patients when they don't recognize it? So you don't hear about it, it's not recognized as linked to something that's affecting your physical and mental health, and so you keep going.
Speaker 1:You keep going and going, and I'd love to talk a bit about exactly what it does to our bodies. But I just wanted to quickly hear from you what is your go-to way of de-stressing? What do you?
Speaker 2:do, yeah. So over time I've actually developed my own self-care plan for the week and I have to say, the number one thing is I'm so aware of my breathing and when you're in that stress moment you do shallow breathe. So number one is that lovely deep breaths that I'm aware of and I've retrained. I had to rewire and retrain the way I breathe when I realized I was shallow breathing. So being aware of that.
Speaker 2:Number two is meditation. That's my go-to. I do it absolutely every day. It's almost I need it. I need it because I've seen the results of how my day pans out. It's, you know, just focus and concentration, but just better decisions, and when you're in a professional mode, you are always making decisions and that's the way to stress. So number two is meditation and number three is I love my walks in nature. It's my go-to. Luckily, I live literally by the river in Melbourne and it's just amazing how I go. Right, I've got 15 minutes. I'm just going to go to the river back, get some sun, walk and listen to music, and I find music really relaxing as well. So these are my go-to on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:Yes, Fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing those. They're three really goodies. And I might ask you at the end what's your favorite meditation? But what I'd really love to know now, because I am super curious as well what does stress medically do to our bodies and our minds, and how does it usually present physically?
Speaker 2:So go-place to start with that question is to actually understand what exactly is going on in our body when we're in that stress response, because we see it, we might feel it physically and that physical response could be all a bit of tightness, maybe around the chest, maybe, you know tightness around the neck and shoulder muscles, maybe the gut. So we might see it physically, but what's actually happening? It actually starts with a thought, funnily enough, and that thought is saying get me out of here, this is scary, I'm fearful of what's happening. And this triggers a whole series of reactions. It starts in the brain, the amygdala, which is a little gland in the brain telling the body oh, this is fearful, get me out of here. Sends messages to another part of the brain, the hypothalamus, and then to the rest of the body, including the adrenal. So these are glands that's sitting on top of your kidneys that secrete adrenaline, or adrenaline and cortisol, and through the nervous system, the sympathetic nervous system, which is a whole series of nerves connecting to different parts of the body, says get me out of here. So I'm going to prepare you to get you out of here by increasing blood flow to the muscles, taking blood flow away from the gut, getting your heart racing, and it's all these series of events that happen that lead you to right, do I fight, do I flee, do I freeze?
Speaker 2:And that stress response has been designed to save us. And it's really great because you know, crossing a motorway, you're gonna be thinking about that. And or you know at the edge of a cliff, or you know, oh, it's quite high, and all of a sudden that stress response happens. You go, oh, gotta be cautious here, gotta be careful. So it's designed to help us. But unfortunately, over time, that thought could be triggered by various emotions, including just that guilt or embarrassment, or fear of maybe speaking, or fear of confrontation. So fear can come in different ways, but it's something that we've learned, that's caused this fear. And, funnily enough, you know, over time a single thought can be quite automated. So, for example, you had a fearful response presenting in a meeting.
Speaker 2:And then you go oh my God, that's gonna happen again. And that same thought can be so automated and trigger this response in your body. So that response in your body can come out as, like what we said, tension or tightness or sweaty palms or dry mouth, which we're all sort of familiar with, yeah, over time. What I say to patients is it's fine to have that stress response, it's designed for human survival, yeah, but it's that chronic stress response. Yes, we keep ourselves in so we never shake it off. And I often say you know, when animals in the wild, when they chase, they go and shake it off and then they carry on. We don't shake it off, we carry it. And we carry it either in our bodies or in our thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, that is such a wonderful description of stress. A lot of stressed professionals out there, or stress moms who are feeling super stressed and you could just be sitting still not doing much at all, but there's actually a whole lot going on in their minds those exhaustive, endless things of lists that you have to do or ruminating on a combative phone call that you've had at work during the day that, by that definition, can actually trigger a lot of those internal stress responses. So I imagine that looking and testing those thoughts for truth and trying to sort of reframe them could be a helpful way of undoing the stress. So I guess in your practice you're probably seeing a lot of clients that are showing up with symptoms of leading a stressful life. What are the sort of common causes of stress that that you're witnessing?
Speaker 2:So interesting that you say that because you touched upon it. There's ruminating thoughts, but really simple is when our demands increase and our resources are low. It's as simple as that. It's that sea sort of honestly way too many demands. Now Life goes on and all of a sudden there's a lot more projects, a lot more demands, but then there's just not enough resources and you're feeling overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:So that's one big one.
Speaker 2:And you say right, what can we do to increase your resources, support, help and how we can reduce those demands? What do we say no to, how do we prioritize? And I often actually say it's time to step away. Maybe it's stepping away from work for a couple of days, giving yourself me time. Most important thing is to start saying no. What can you say no to and who can you bring in to support you? And it's really interesting when they have a look at it, they go actually who is my support network? And I think that's a really good question to ask.
Speaker 2:I feel like in today's world we're very isolated. We don't actually turn to people for support. There is no village. It's very much. Yes, I go and socialize and talk about fun things, but I actually don't talk about my problems to anyone and it just makes you think who's your go to person, who is your network? And so I always ask that question who is your network to help you? Because we're not actually designed to solve problems by yourself at all. And just a thought of it. I thinking, wow, if I had to solve all my problems myself. That is stressful in its own self, just thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you can catastrophize those thoughts, can't you? If you have, if you're sort of stuck in your own head and it's going around in an endless loop, Enough the power of your community, and it may not be everyone in the community, but it may be key people.
Speaker 2:That you go might be my mentor or a coach, or maybe it's a psychologist, but isn't it funny as well that we have to turn to professionals for support rather than?
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, yeah, I know, and I was reading the other day that stress can actually be linked to weight gain. Is that right? How does that work?
Speaker 2:And it goes all back to that chronic stress response that I described about. The key word here is cortisol. So cortisol is a stress hormone that's secreted. Every time you are in that stress response and cortisol, think about it, which I say to patients all the time it's a steroid. Think about it as sugar. It's telling your body to release sugar, telling your body to increase that sugar. So every time you're pumping out cortisol, you're pumping out sugar and that's what the body reads it as. So it's telling your liver yep, got a breakdown. The storage of sugar into glucose. The cells need it. You need it to get through the stress response.
Speaker 2:And the normal circadian rhythm is actually her high cortisol. In the morning. It should peak around nine and it takes the whole day to get to slow down and get you ready for bed. So I show that diagram to patients that, to be honest, our body is designed to slow down right from nine AM and get you ready for bed. But what happens is we might be breathing shallow. We've got a difficult meeting, a confrontation, a stressful job that keeps our cortisol high. Then all of a sudden we go right, I want to get ready for bed and you probably most likely go to bed with the cortisol.
Speaker 2:So cortisol, think about it equal sugar, equals weight gain and weight. The best time for weight loss is actually at night. So that's when cortisol is the lowest, insulin is the lowest and that's time ketosis happen. But what happens is you're actually going to bed, perhaps you're eating late at night, perhaps you're going to stress and, as a result, weight is just piling on. So weight can just increase with that stress response. And it's probably a nice side track to go. Why women, especially in their 40s perimenopause, get that weight gain.
Speaker 2:Yes yes that hormonal changes of. As the estrogen declines, most likely insulin goes up, plus lack of muscle mass. Muscle mass and then sedentary jobs and then lack of protein in our diet. So it goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for addressing that Well. Wouldn't mind just asking you just to provide no view of what integrative medicine actually is and, I guess, what are your sort of general ways of treating people? I know it would be different from person to person, but someone that's presenting with some symptoms of stress, what might be your practical tips for that person?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Integrative medicine this is how I describe it to patients. So at the moment when you go and see your GP, you present with your symptoms and more often than not the solution is a drug. So what we do in integrative medicine, we know the body is designed to be well, it's designed to get well, so we want to really bring you away from that illness cycle and go right what's out of balance and we go deeper and we can go as deep as genetics to nutrition, nutrient deficiencies, lifestyle, sleep.
Speaker 2:We go to all of those areas, plus hormonal changes, liver detox pathways we can look at so many things, but our job is to be the detective, find out what's out of balance and create a really simple step by step plan to actually put your body back into balance. And it's so achievable and the results are actually much quicker than you think when you're putting the simple steps into place. And patients love it because you know it's time to be empowered, take back the control of your health. And so where I see the gaps in conventional medicine is the lack of education. So we educate a lot about how your body responds, what the body needs and different pathways that you can do it. You're responsible for your health and when you put it as a priority, you will see results.
Speaker 2:So there's a massive shift in mindset from you fix me to I'm going to fix myself. Yeah, this is a priority. So I'm going to invest time, effort, money, whatever that looks like, to get my help back. And it's not a quick fix, it's actually act. I do need to change my habits. I do need to look at whether it's caffeine, sleep, movement, breathing, all of that and put my body back into balance. And then we look at nutrients, hormones. We look at things deep, much, much deeper. So it's so satisfying. It's actually really satisfying for the doctor. It's satisfying for the patients because this is what they're looking for. Fair enough, there is a place for quick fix medicine when you need something done. It's amazing for acute, but when you look at chronic disease and you look at the stats, 80% is due to diet and lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can hear the passion in your voice when you speak about it. I'm just getting goosebumps just even hearing it, because it's it's educative as well to the client and that they can take ownership of their own life and take it forward in with the changes in habits and with some assistance from you along the way. So how empowering for for your clients to be able to take that away with them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I love it when you know, when they ever come back for a check, they've actually done all the steps. Yeah, they remembered I. Often I hear they can hear my voice in their head going stress and nutrition and they've looked at all of that, which is fantastic. Like you know, you've got your own checklist and that's how you keep yourself well.
Speaker 1:You do. Can I just quickly ask you a question here, because a lot of clients that are teaching on the edge of burnout. They're highly stressed, the fatigue is out of control. What would you do to, I guess, initially treat them for burnout? Are there tests that can be done to see if you are physically burnout, or is it more of a lifestyle change that's needed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's two ways of looking at it Definitely lifestyle and definitely your physical and mental symptoms, rather than a specific test, because no doubt that burnout would have caused, maybe, things to your body, whether it's thyroid, whether it's insulin resistance, anxiety, depression. So it can lead to different things. So there's no diagnostic tests for it. It's a combination of things and often burnout. It's interesting because the WHO describes it as more of an occupational workplace. Yeah, but you can get care as burnout.
Speaker 2:There's burnout in so many different forms of all. I think there's also maternal burnout these days of just doing too much. So it's that constant, ongoing, mental, physical fatigue. But also you've just lost interest. It's not joyful anymore, you don't want to do it. It's a struggle to get out of bed, to get things done, and that's all coming to burnout. And I see so many patients with burnout and often they haven't identified it in themselves until we have a discussion about it and the first step is to stop. I know it's hard. It's really hard to sort of stop because there's like, oh, that project really is dependent on me or I have to be at work. But literally when you have that conversation, people go right, I'm going to stop for a couple of days. I'm going to take time out, I'm going to really look after myself and nourish myself and when they think back, they probably haven't done it for months. Yeah, it's like permission to stop. Yeah, Absolutely. And then I help them with that permission to stop. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what? I could talk to you all day, but I'm just conscious of time. But I would really love to know and I know the listeners would too what would be your top three tips that you would recommend to busy people to incorporate into their daily lives to combat stress, to de-stress, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Number one is I think I've mentioned it before it's breathe. We've not realized how we're breathing. We're almost actually holding up breath. I was chatting to a patient, realized that she held her breath all morning until she realized she was. She was just constantly holding her breath and so, knowing that you're breathing into your tummy, so you want to go to tummy breathing and a good way to test is one hand on your chest, one hand on your tummy and take a deep breath in and see which rises first.
Speaker 1:And I'm doing it as I speak, and it's funny because often it's the chest.
Speaker 2:Nine times out of 10 my patients were having the chest rise first and they're not aware of it. So practice tummy breathing and a good way to start is just practice blowing out your tummy like a balloon, getting used to that sensation. And then we want to practice that tummy breathing first, like rising first and then the chest. So that's number one. It's unbelievable how a couple of deep breaths can make you feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've reminded me of a recent study that showed that when we're reading our emails, we hold our breath.
Speaker 2:Yeah, email app near or something. Yes, Along those lines. And I'm not surprised because you're like what are they going to say? What?
Speaker 1:are they?
Speaker 2:going to do and so just take a moment. I often say like, maybe post it notes or reminders or some kind of reminder on your phone. Lovely, deep breaths. It's phenomenal what it does. It activates the vagus nerve. The opposite of the sympathetic response. It calms you down. It's just phenomenal. And it's simple, it's easy, it's free. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:Number two is this is this is going to be a challenge, because next thing I'm going to say, people are going to say please don't ever take that away from me, and that's caffeine. Yeah, and so it's watching your caffeine intake, because what we do, we get into the cycle, we're tired, we're exhausted, we need caffeine to pick me up. So what does caffeine do? It's artificially increasing your cortisol, adrenaline or adrenaline. What I say to patients yep, fine, you might be metabolizing it quickly, that's great. But hey, there's other couple of genes that might say look, I'm going to produce adrenaline quickly and get rid of it slowly. So I'm going to artificially keep you in the fight or flight response for weeks. And so the effects of caffeine can last three weeks.
Speaker 2:And I often say have a think about just going decaf step number one, going to decaf and just three weeks, and just seeing, observe how you feel. I know there's a massive social element to caffeine and that's okay. So, you know, do the decaf, do a bit of switching and nine times out of 10 patients come back and, wow, I didn't realize the effect it has. And when you think about it, you're doing this amazing work on trying to cut stress here, work on breathing, but then you're just giving yourself a drug that's, you know, literally removing all that great work.
Speaker 1:Ah, that easy that's. That's a hard one, isn't it? But I'm going to do it. I'm writing notes like I'm literally a patient, but I mean because I don't drink alcohol. So coffee's my thing, but I do know that it gives me anxiety. I know when I have that extra cup.
Speaker 2:That's a terrific one, thank you, and so what I always say is just trial. Do a trial for three weeks, see how you feel, and then you can tie trader in up down. But you're now fully aware what the effects of coffee are.
Speaker 2:Coffee is like send your body. And the last one is sleep. I have to say, you know, prioritize sleep. We literally just don't value it enough. It's the most sacred part of the day but it's the easiest to give up. Easiest because, you know, let's just turn on a bit of Netflix before bed, or let me just scroll on my phones, or, you know, often people do wake up in the middle of night when they're stressed or burnt out and they go to their phones and that is actually keeping you awake. Yeah, so studies have shown that I think in the States, close to 50% of the population asleep deprived, and that means what that means is actually getting less than six hours of sleep a night, which is equivalent to being drunk on the road.
Speaker 2:That's how your level of focus is. Wow, just putting that into perspective and going why? What happens if I create a sacred hour before bed? Yes, I couldn't Listen, I don't have to watch. Put phones in a different room, maybe having beautiful, you know, nice hot shower or a bath, or listening to music. Meditate, create that sacred hour and just observe how you feel. Again, you know, what does that look like all of a sudden? Maybe you're sleeping much deeper at night. You're waking up alert and you're feeling amazing, and that's your positive feedback, luke so.
Speaker 1:I think that's fabulous. I really like the idea of a sacred hour and it's kind of runs in parallel with what I tell clients in my own practice around trying to drink less as well. It's trying to anchor the day with something that's giving you permission just to really calm, switch off and ease into sleep, Like fresh, fresh, clean sheets, lovely pajamas, green tea just a moment to really get into that sleep zone. Thank you so much. They're wonderful tips, really really lovely tips and easy to do and easy to incorporate. Now I just would love to hear a little bit about your podcast.
Speaker 2:What's that all about? Yeah, so I named it the six hats and what I realized is I was seeing so many patients not at the end of their journey but very close to where they're getting the symptoms. So, whether it's thyroid issues, weight gain, menopausal symptoms, anxiety, depression, and when you go back on their journey, it's been the chronic stress response. So the whole goal is to really share the awareness and spread the awareness that stress does affect your body. How do you recognize it? And let's change that narrative. I really like to challenge the narrative because I used to always hear well, that's how it is, that's how it is, that's stressful, and I go well, it doesn't have to be. And let's look at all these different strategies. So I invite lots of experts to come on and there's so many options out there. Whether it's I had a dentist who gave up dentistry and became an art therapist, and now she's started karaoke queen.
Speaker 2:I love those stories, yeah, singing and music and dance and journaling, and it's just phenomenal what's out there and I think we underestimate the power of social prescribing as well in this so much you can do. So it's giving people lots and lots of ideas of actually. You know, you don't actually need to live life stressed. You can change it and so many people have transformed their lives and quite a few many of my patients have actually go. Why am I leading a stressful life? Like, at what cost? At what cost? I changed it and they've transformed their lives and now they're so much happier and joyful and it's just giving permission that you can do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I love it. I'm going to put all the details about six hats in the show notes. One last question Do you have a favorite meditation that you go to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've tried so many different types of meditation and my favorite one is actually the silver method and it's by Jose Silver. I love that. It's the alpha meditation. For me, it really resonated. It was fantastic. I was able to go into deep meditation and I was able to see the effects immediately, literally from wow. I've got more clarity, better memory, I'm so much more calm, I'm less reactive and I'm choosing my response. So all of these things are happening and I just do it daily. It's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I'm going to put that in the show notes as well. I think getting people's favorite meditations, it's like worth its weight in gold. So thank you. Now I think all of your listeners, your clients, are so lucky to have you as their doctor and access to all of the knowledge that you have. If there are listeners that would want to get in touch and learn a bit more about the services that you offer, where's the best way that they can?
Speaker 2:do so, so literally go onto our website, so it's wwwmintcliniccomau and, yeah, all the information is there and they can book online and they can have access to our podcasts and resources and there's a great ebook that's the ultimate guide to integrative medicine everything that you need to know, which is a great starting point to sort of start your journey in this path. And, yeah, that's the best place Fabulous.
Speaker 1:Four listeners that do not live in Melbourne. Do you do online consultations? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you should say that you have got many patients interstate in all states of Australia.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, because I know I'll get asked that question. Thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Thank you so much and all the best. I mean, this is so important, so thank you for doing what you're doing. Oh, I love it, thank you.
